NASCAR simply did not follow its own rules
Quote selected text Published February 19th, 2007 in NASCAR News
“When the 07 went sideways on the track, the yellow came out,” NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said afterward. “At that point the 29 was ahead of the 01 and declared the winner.”
That was a good explanation and all, except that’s not what happened. Bowyer was upside down before the leaders took the checkered flag. The caution was thrown after that, technically, and according to NASCAR’s own rules, after the race ended. The fact that there was an official margin of victory (.020 seconds) proves it. There is no margin of victory in a race that ends under caution. And since no caution flew before the end, NASCAR had no official account of the crash. In effect, it never happened.
The initial race results showed that all the cars involved were running at the end. That the entire viewing world saw the 07 burning and tumbling down the tri-oval with a sixth of the field spinning and crashing through the smoke and fire demonstrates that NASCAR’s reasoning was as brazen as Martin’s wasn’t.
Harvick will apparently go down in history as the winner of the 49th Daytona 500 in part because NASCAR didn’t follow its own rules and because Martin didn’t want to cause more controversy.
At the end of a controversial week, Harvick went from sixth to first on the final lap to leave a field of fuming drivers behind a wall of smoke and NASCAR behind a wall of deceit. It simply didn’t end the way NASCAR saw it.
But the only man who should’ve been screaming into the night was fine with second place.
More at Roanoke Times
- Schumacher Vows to Fight Back
- Ferrari’s Wheels Illegal??
- NASCAR strips team of East Series victory due to violation
- Alonso never considered Ferrari switch
- Steve Wallace’s crew chief fined for illegal equipment
NASCAR Is simply changing the rules at their own convenient timing.
It’s like the deal with so many teams being penalized but YET Jeff Gordon was supposedly ok with his infraction but then he spoke cuss words in the press conference and he still gets
nothing. Kasey Kahne last year was told in Texas that is he would have said a cuss word then he would have been docked 50 points. Where the hell is the -50 points for the 24?? No where
because NASCAR has their favorites and it’s starting to piss off a lot
of NASCAR fans!
I think Martin got the short end of the stick but ill tell you, he is one class act!!!!!!!!
The whining the bitching! Now that NASCAR tries to make the finish more exciting everyone throws a tizzy…get over it! Harvick crossed the line first…what more do you want???
they should of thowrn the caution but mark martin was nice
enough to take 2nd i wouldnt of been able to do that
Final lap. Race to the finish. Regardless. That is the way it SHOULD be. Simple as that. Martin should have picked a different line through 3 and 4. He has no one to blame but himself. Great race. Awesome finish. …And for the record Martin is not a nice person. He is an old bitter man. That is what makes him a great driver still.
One more thing… You whiners need to stop listening to ESPN like its the gospel and form your own opinions. Especially whoever originally wrote this article.
Oh, Alyssa, the Gordon cussing thing is different than Junior’s. Junior was fined (albeit ridiculously) because it was during an actual race telecast (TNT or NBC, can’t remember) and NASCAR and its broadcasters are so scared of the FCC they hoped the fine would curb any fines they might receive. Also making them look like the family oriented sport they hope to be. Not because they care about morals or values or have favorites (at least in this situation). Its about the money. Like every other corporation we bow to.
I completely agree. Martin should have been the official winner. And though it doesn’t matter, i consider him the winner because he rightfully is. Not to mention how far he has come. He should have been officaially.
I’m a Mark Martin fan and I’m not complaining that Mark didnt win the race. But , nascar has set a rule that a caution should be thrown as soon as a wreck starts , and the field is frozen when it crosses the next transponder under the track. Anyone who says the caution WAS thrown is wrong , because the caution came out after the race was over. Also anyone who says:well the wreck was behind the leaders” , well what does that have to do with the cars BEHIND the wreck that drove past spinning and flipping cars at 180MPH , because the green was still out. I wonder if Montoya running 180 MPH would have smashed into the flipping 07 and hurt Clint Boywer , would everybody then be yelling “why wasnt a caution thrown”? And isnt that the original purpose of Nascar’s rule anyway. To protect the drivers involved in a wreck from the cars still behind them at speed?
Right on the money Chris.
When they are one straightaway from the checkered flag, why should NASCAR throw a caution?
Two men are racing for one victory lane.
I bet half of you on here would be complaining if Mark got the victory saying that NASCAR favored him in throwing that caution.
I personally liked how they let the TOP TWO be side by side having a drag race down the last straightaway.
What does NASCAR stand for… National Assoc. For Stock Car Auto RACING. RACING.
So everyone can stop complaining about “poor mark” and deal with the fact that he lost the drag race.
Fair and square. I didn’t like the fact Kevin Harvick won the race, but it was still an awesome race to watch to the end.
Look, we all want to see racing, racing, not wins under cautions. Yes, freezing the field under caution as soon as the wreck starts is safest for all, however, in this case, throwing the caution would not have mattered. Yes, they should have done it for the sake of being consistent. However, had they thrown the caution when the wreck started, note I said when the wreck started, Harvick would still have won the race. I have watched the footage from several angles, and Harvick was ahead of Martin when the wreck started. Martin came back past him, then Harvick back past Martin again. Like I said, throwing the caution would not have mattered, for the outcome, or safety. They were all wrecking behind them and throwing the caution would not have stopped the wreck. They were all coming off turn 4 fast as hell, fighting for every position they could, which is what they should be doing. The caution flag would not have prevented anybody from being involved in that wreck, and the winner would still have been Harvick. Yes, I wanted Martin to win, wanted him to win bad! Damn, I was jumping up and down here in my house, screaming for Martin to go and screaming at Harvick (as if they could both hear me) to screw off! But it just wasn’t meant to be. Harvick did what he had to do to win the race. Which is what is in his blood as a racer and what he’s paid to do. And I don’t think Martin would have felt as good about winning if it was just handed to him. I do wish the outcome was different, wish Martin would have won the race. But he didn’t, and I saw nothing wrong with the way the race ended, other than NASCAR should have thrown the flag just for the sake of being consistent, although, like I said, it would have made no difference unfortunately.
Glad Kevin won. The weech was behind them. So what is the b—-?
The complaining about the fact that yellow was not thrown is the inconsistency shown by Nascar in their no racing back to the yellow rule. This is not the first time an accident has occured behind the leaders, but in the past the yellow has still come out before the leaders crossed the line. The rule was created to ensure safety of drivers involved in those wrecks, after the wreck that killed Dale Earnhardt. When a car slides across the finish line upside down and on fire and he is recorded as finishing the race running, there is obviously a flaw in what happened. Just because the leaders were ahead of the accident doesnt mean that staying green was appropriate, as the lack of yellow meant the drivers behind what was happening were not warned of what was ahead.
I’m glad they did not throw the caution. What would it have proved? It’s the Daytona 500. Let them race their hearts out. There was no way the wreck would have impacted Harvick or Martin so why ruin their moments. It was a great finish. If a caution ended the race..i mean c’mon..who’s gonna be excited? Especially after Nascar advertizes the Daytona 500 all off-season long; everyone is expecting an exciting finish. To have the race end under caution would just be a dissapointment.
THE REASON I AM IRRITATED IS IF ANY OTHER TIME THEY WOULD HAVE CALLED A CAUTION,THEY SHOULD HAVE CALLED IT YESTERDAY.THEY ARE NOT CONSISTENT.IT IS NOT FAIR TO COMPETITORS IN EARLIER RACES WHICH COULD HAVE WON IF THEY HAD BEEN ALLOWED TO ADVANCE.2ND COMMENT: NASCAR HAS DIFFERENT RULES STANDARDS FOR DUPONT,BUDWEISER,HOME DEPOT.
i think that nascar relized that the 29 and 01 were far from the wreck and decided to let them duel it out….i personally thought it was a great nd to the daytona 500.
Some simple physics from a physics major… Newtons three laws govern every thing that happened; cars moving at over 180 MPH CANNOT stop or change direction well (especially when they are less than 1 foot from each other). So throwing a caution would accomplish nothing.
The only problem I have is with their explanation. They say they threw the caution because the 07 was sideways. Well what about the 5 and the 17? They looked pretty sideways to me. Sorry Nascar, work on your explanations and your consistency.
nascar is full of BS, they knew Mark would not complain aout the finish so the gave it to harvick. i was telling someone earlier that IF i was in the race and saw what happen i would have been giving NASCAR heck right after i got out of the car. they toook 100 points away from Mikey and his car, throw out his crew chief. they also surspended the crew cheifs for the 17, 9, 19, and 10, but they don’t follow the rules and let martin have the win. that is BS to me.
OK , if you watched NASCAR, 5 years ago, when they raced back to the start finish after a crash and changed toe the “lucky dog ” rule you sw everyone bitching about that rule change. Now they let the race finish like it did for 44 years before the new rule and you bitch again. When you driver is a lap down you are praying for the “lucky dog”. You all have to change with the times and live in the past. I would have loved to have Mark get the win under yellow but that was a great finish the way it use to be.
PS to all the people that keep saying to put the rules in writing >>>>THEY ARE !!!!!!
Sounds like someone (Alyssa) just wants to gripe about hating gordon and not the article. Gordon didn’t get fine or docked points simply because the part being the spring was a nascar approved part, and the car simply came in too low, it wasn’t too low before the race, just after, which shows that either the allignment in the bracket was off, or it compacted as some do during the race, that is a normal infraction that happens from time to time, and had it been a points race, which the duels aren’t, he would have been docked points but maintain his official finish position, however with it being a qualifying race, they took away the finishing position instead of points, it is known as a non intentional infraction, and they usually don’t take too severe a penalty on those cases, although you gordon haters sure wish they did when it happens to gordon, yet don’t say much when it is Jr or someone else, and they all have this same infraction happen dozens of times each year, and never much thought of it, it is just part of what happens to mechanical parts just as when you lose a piston in an engine, however that hurts you, yet if your springs in your suspension compact too much, this helps a car and they will take a few points, but usually only on the winner, they don’t look for this on all cars after a race. the rest of the infracions during the week were caught in prequalifying inspections and were either fixed and then allowed to qualify and keep their qualifying time but lose the points and get fined, the ones caught for infractions of the same nature after the qualifying had their times thrown out and had to start in the back. The more serious the infraction, the higher the points were deducted and the longer the suspensions. Waltrip is lucky he was allowed to be in the race and not suspended himself, and here is why I feel that, he not only owns the team, but he is also the driver, I take it hard to believe that a crew cheif and team captain for waltrip racing would put something in the fuel to help the cars horsepower without the driver and owner having something to do with it. Number two, has he fired either one of these personel from being part of his tam at the garage or from the team, they just can’t be at the tracks as official nascar team members. If I had an emplyee sabatoge my car and have such controversy that is embarrassing to the team, the manufacturer, and the sponser. I definatly would have fired them from the team. (Toyota has done commented as it being one of the biggest embarassments in the companies history)Waltrip knew, but nascar can’t prove it, and waltrip knows if he fires them, they will say so. Common sense tells you whats happening there.
mark did do the right thing bc not causeing more problems. its hard to say bc when the first cars started to spin they were going back and forth. if david just stayed in the top lane we wouldnt have had this problem bc harvick would have just pushed him in front and he would have won.
It was exciting! Watching Mark & Kevin duel for the finish … that’s
what racing is all about!
This is exactly what is good for Nascar.. all
this disucssion and involvement in Nascar with what happened.
Let’s hope the sport grows!
Thanks Chris for all your insite and obvious knowledge about Nascar.
I’m sure a lot of us learned a thing or 2 about the history.
To Chris, you are awesome! I wish more people would see things the way we do and actually think about things and get all the facts first.
And to everyone who was saying that the rule change to not race back to the caution flag came about because of Dale’s death, your wrong. I’m a huge Dale Earnhardt fan, HUGE! But I do know the facts. And the fact is, the rule was changed because of a certain caution at New Hampshire in 2003, I believe it was, when Dale Jarrett was sitting sideways on the track, couldn’t get going right away, and everyone was still racing to get back to the flag. He was truly in danger sitting there like that with cars coming right for him at full throttle. So, maybe that will put an end to that.
Back to Chris, damn dude, you are right on with what you have been saying, good job.
I use to work in NASCAR. THere was many time when all of in the garage couldn’t figure out why NASCAR even had a rule book. The teams have to abide by it but the company doen’t. The caution should have come out as soon as the first car spun. Clint Bowyer more than likely wouldn’t have ended on his greenhouse if so.
Well thank you to Dustin and Nikki for your kind words… I am a huge NASCAR fan, have followed the sport for a LONG time now… I live by NASCAR, its my life. I always make sure I have the facts before I start my argument.
Personally, I think this whole subject is being blown out of proportion by fans who just want to see their favorite drivers do good, and in a sport that has changed over the years and become way more competitive, cheating and non-definition “RACING” becomes an issue. Its a race people, a RACE… I have to point out the comment left by MWS…
” but they don’t follow the rules and let martin have the win. that is BS to me.”
That right there proves my point exactly and what I have been saying all along. Wins can not just be handed out, just let martin HAVE the win? He did not have the car at that time to win, he did not have the right amout of draft, or the right move to take the win… Meaning simply, he was NOT the right and just winner.
Harvick was… and that was proven. Nothing anyone says about “martin should have been declared the winner, he deserved it blah blah” No… If he deserved the win he would have won by R A C I N G for it…
point made…
-chris
(by the way, the comment right above this one was not made by me… but a different Chris… Just so you all know because I dont agree w/ it.)
Thank you Nikki and especially Dustin… Your right, more people should take the time to get the facts instead of making a lidgitamite debate, a battle of DRIVERS and not what is really going on…
btw… The Chris who left a comment up there…. on Feb. 20th, who “worked in NASCAR” was not me… Totally ent against everything i said if u didnt catch that… k
Sucks about mark. i really wanted to see him get the win, but thats the luck of the draw. kevin was able to nudge him out and thats that. and besides, what would a caution really have done? by the time the drivers reacted to the caution, they would have already been slowing down to avoid the wreck.
I wish you illiterate sons-of-bitches would go back and finish grammar school and learn how to spell and write before you get on the web and expose your ignorance to the whole world.
ok. so all of you people that say Mark should be the winner on a technicality are really sad. “Here you go mark, you have been so good for the sport. here is your 500.” What a laughable and sad thing. Mark finished behind Harvick. Plain and simple. Cautions do not come out as soon as a “wreck” occurs all the time. Would you call a spin a wreck? I would. What if its Kyle Petty on the back stretch spinning in the grass and he gets it going again and there is no debris on the track? So, why throw the caution with a 1/4 mile to go with clear track in front of the leaders? NASCAR made a good call. They should re-enact racing back to cautions anyways. These guys know what they signed up for. If I was a driver I would not want to win on a technicality. That is just sad. Harvick had the car and he made the moves. Mark had the car but did not make the moves. He lost. So sad.
nascar fans want to see excitement, they don’t want to see nascar regulating everything that happens,
if they’d thrown the caution, sure martin would have won but he wouldn’t have earned it, but the fact that he fought
harvick to the end makes for one exciting race and fans and opposers of mark martin should wholeheartedly agree.
besides, its apparently obvious that the old man will never die or leave the sport. there’s always next year.