Loophole in NASCAR’s car limit rule for Roush-Fenway/Yates?
Quote selected text Published July 3rd, 2008 in NASCAR News
Between Travis Kvapil’s top-20 status in the points and David Gilliland’s second-place finish at Sonoma, it’s safe to say that Yates Racing has benefited from its alliance with Roush-Fenway Racing.
But has it benefited, from a sponsorship standpoint, in a way that skirts NASCAR’s car-limit rule? By the sanctioning body’s response to questions, it’s hard to tell.
When the alliance was announced, a pact that included Yates Racing moving into a shop on the campus of Roush-Fenway, several stipulations had to be adhered to for the organizations to still be considered separate entities. One of the main requirements is that one team cannot underwrite another’s financial losses.
More than once this year Kvapil, whose team has struggled to find fulltime funding, has been sponsored by companies that also sponsor Roush-Fenway entries in the Craftsman Truck and Nationwide series. At Pocono, he was sponsored by Dish Network, which has primary sponsorship in numerous Cup races sprinkled between different Roush-Fenway drivers.
As part of the alliance, Roush-Fenway’s marketing arm is free to seek sponsorship for Yates entries. But the question is whether the sponsors already affiliated with Roush-Fenway paid additional money to be on the Yates cars, or whether any of that sponsorship money came from existing contracts with Roush-Fenway. And if so, would diverting those funds count as one team underwriting another, thereby violating the rule?
More at Long Island Press
- Roush applauds NASCAR’s decision on Toyota’s Nationwide engines
- Roush-Yates alliance could circumvent NASCAR’s four-car rule
- NASCAR’s Darby doesn’t want to change top-35 qualifying rule but…
- NASCAR will not change age limit in 2009
- Roush will decide in 2008 which driver gets cut to meet team number limit
Would Camping World sponsoring Robby Gordon count as his team and KHI & RCR all being one mega team….? lmfa0
I don’t know about the rest of NASCAR fans, but Personally I don’t care where or how a team is getting sponsors as long as they are getting sponsors and as long as those sponsors are paying for the races they are on the car.
Couldn’t care less who’s helping who get sponsorships. That whole article is just some clown trying to stir up some trouble.
It simply amazes me how Nascar believes that they have the right to control every single aspect of racing teams and their drivers. Over the years, I have seen one pompous association after another get voted out by fed-up racing teams. How did the Clowns of Nascar slip through the cracks. They have become far too big and powerful, and their ever expanding ridiculous rules has turned its racing into a manipulated circus side show. The teams should realize that they have the power and provide the real entertainment to the fans. Get rid of these Nascar Clowns and get back to real racing!
John wrote:
The teams have no power in NASCAR. They are independent contractors. They have no ‘vote’ and they aren’t entitled to any say at all. That said, it’s in their best interest for NASCAR to listen to the teams and work with them, but they aren’t under any obligation to do so.
NASCAR can pretty much do what they want and there’s not a whole lot the teams can do about it aside from pack up and quit. NASCAR will survive without HMS, but HMS certainly isn’t going to survive without NASCAR. It would take every last team saying “do this or we all walk out together” for teams leaving to change anything, and that’ll never happen in a million years.
The car limit is absolutely what is in the best interest of the fans and the sport. If it weren’t for some kind of rule limiting cars, eventually there would be about 5 super teams fighting each other for dominance in the sport. Petty, Evernham, Robby Gordon, Waltrip, Haas, etc… Would all be engulfed by HMS, Roush, JGR or Penske and that would be that.
The teams have no power in NASCAR. They are independent contractors. They have no ‘vote’ and they aren’t entitled to any say at all. That said, it’s in their best interest for NASCAR to listen to the teams and work with them, but they aren’t under any obligation to do so.
NASCAR can pretty much do what they want and there’s not a whole lot the teams can do about it aside from pack up and quit. NASCAR will survive without HMS, but HMS certainly isn’t going to survive without NASCAR. It would take every last team saying “do this or we all walk out together” for teams leaving to change anything, and that’ll never happen in a million years.
The car limit is absolutely what is in the best interest of the fans and the sport. If it weren’t for some kind of rule limiting cars, eventually there would be about 5 super teams fighting each other for dominance in the sport. Petty, Evernham, Robby Gordon, Waltrip, Haas, etc… Would all be engulfed by HMS, Roush, JGR or Penske and that would be that.
Jeff:
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response, but I think your wrong. When any organization compromises fairness for special interest in terms of finances, this monster will continue to grow until it becomes completely out of control. And that is exactly what has happened in Nascar — to the point that there is now, no way out!
The fact that so many ridicules rules have been in place for so many years that totally benefit the high dollar teams, has in-fact been the fuel for this monster to continue to grow — to the point that smaller teams can no longer exist, much less hope to compete. The first time a driver showed up at the track and qualified with a faster lap but was not able to race because he wasn’t in the ridiculous top 35 is when everything began to go in this soulful direction.
I certainly hope your wrong about Nascar being so solvent that it can’t be broken in a million years. Because I for one, would love so see all the racing organizations stick together and get a governing body in there that would return top notch racing back to fairness and sanity.
John, unfortunately, I doubt I’m wrong. NASCAR is like any other employer. If I go to the owner of my company with a complaint, they might do something about it or they might laugh in my face. If I don’t like it, I am free to leave whenever I want, and the company goes on.
Now all my fellow programmers could go as a group to the owners with a complaint or suggestion. They might take us more seriously. Or they might tell us all to take a hike and outsource our jobs to India. I’m sure there’s plenty of other racing teams that wouldn’t mind getting into NASCAR on the cheap without HMS and others there to compete against.
The France family started the whole thing, owns the name, owns the merchandising, owns half the tracks, etc… If anything, this particular rule is a good thing for the smaller teams. People like Robby Gordon have a hard enough time competing against 4 car teams. He certainly couldn’t do it against a handful of super-teams. If Roush had his way, he’s probably have a dozen cars out there all set up more or less the same, and all 12 of them would beat the pants off Robby every weekend.
Yes, the top35 rule is crap. Yes, everyone hates it. But it is what it is, and all the teams understand what they have to do to be inside the top 35. They all compete with the same rule. It’s not being fairly or unfairly applied to certain teams. Yeah when Boris Said would have made it on time and rain canceled qualifying wherever that was last year it sucked. But when he showed up at the track, he knew it might happen. I’d LOVE more than anything to see that role disappear and the fastest 43 cars race.
BTW, there will never be total fairness in racing. Even if they went to a 100% spec car prepped like IROC, there would be haves and have-nots. Gibbs would still have a better pit crew than Robby. Knaus would still find ways to skirt the rules. Etc… As they say, that’s racin!
Jeff:
Thanks again for the response. You seem to be more accepting than I. And yes, it is what it is. But in my way of thinking, it will never make it right.
I was a young Nascar fan in the fifty’s and remember people like Danny Letner, Marshall Teague, Lou Figero, Tim and Fonty Flock and others race their fabulous Hudson Hornets. And as accepting as you are, I can only assume that you are a much younger man. While the racing of the time can in no way be compared to today, true competition seemed more exciting through fairness, as this was a time long before Nascar became so backwards.
Yes, it is what it is. But only because we as fans allowed it to happen. Right is right, and not even mighty Nascar can change that! Mark my words — they have nowhere to go at this point. Its all downhill for them now!
Thanks again Jeff. But I’m through with it.
As they say — Its anything but racing!
If this were a Hendrick team or one associated with them, would we even be hearing about it? Doubt it….I’ve always believed the reason the teams will be capped at four by NASCAR, rather than three, is because Hendrick has four teams. I could be wrong, and have been before.
So I guess fair is when people were running tricked out roll cages with fuel hidden in them, big blocks and God only knows what else? Fair is people winning races while lapping the field? There was no “true competition” back then. It was all a contest to see who could come up with the most rigged up setup and go out there and beat everyone down that way.
Im 30, and I’ve been a fan since I was little, so I’ve been around a while, but I can’t help but think that if NASCAR took a laissez faire approach to regulating the sport that today people would be running secret NOS foggers and any other tricked out thing under the sun. You KNOW Roush would stop at nothing to be the one and only Ford team in the garage if they would let him. Hendrick would do the same with Chevy. If 2 or 3 cars wasn’t enough for them, when would they decide enough’s enough?
All the crazy rules and this new car are supposed to bring parity to the sport. Of course it’s a work in progress, so we’re nowhere near it yet. Everything comes and goes in cycles - Hendrick dominated last year and while they aren’t doing horrible this year,other teams caught up and it’s closer to fair than it was last year. There’s a lot NASCAR could do to really level the playing field, but they don’t.
Wow Jeff, you certainly seem to have all the “Back In The Day” tricks figured out. And yes, AJ Foyt was caught with his roll cage serving as an extension to his fuel tank. But even cheating, he still lost races as well, was caught and dealt with. Cheating will go on forever. Hell, I cheated plenty during my racing days — and when caught, was dealt with.
But let the slightest infraction happen today, and away goes your crew chief for a spell, a reduction in driver and owner points while Nascar has no problem sticking a few hundred thousand dollars in fines in their fat pockets.
Nascar is my problem. But the sad part of all this is how clever they are at getting the fans to accept all their BS. I believe you made the point better than I could have in your last description of the top 35 rule. Although you did agreed with me, you seemed to find some degree of fairness in the fact that all teams understood the rule, and therefore, was fair for all concerned.
But what about the guy that came to the track, qualified, and is now denied what he fairly earned? And what about the guy that is now allowed to race although he did not qualify for anything? Has Nascar become so big that they can actually change the meaning of the word qualify?
Unless a rule can be made with the basis of fairness, then anything that derives from that rule is likewise unfair. And this same premise has become the backbone of all Nascar rules and standards. Don’t allow your mind to be swayed. What’s right is right, and that is seldom determined by Nascar or their moronic way of seeing things.
But thanks again. I find your Nascar indoctrinated opinions very interesting, but sad!
Personally I think teams should be capped to two cars, and we should have 11 teams that field those two cars and the Cup series should be a closed series, so only those 11 teams can compete. It works well for many of the FIA run series that use that system.
Nice we-site. I will get to the bottom of all this crap and suspend everybody. Wait till i tell brian about this site.
John -
A) The fines only go in NASCAR’s pockets for a small time and then as of this season, they give all the fine money to the NASCAR Foundation. It used to get re-distributed to the teams, which was silly, and after enough outcry, they are now giving it to charity like they should have been from the get-go.
B) I already told you I don’t like the top 35 anymore than the rest of the world. But the fact is those outside the top 35 know exactly where they stand and what may happen when they show up to the track. It’s laid out in black and white in the rulebook and it’s widely publicized in the media. If they don’t like it, tough. Nobody’s making them come out to the track every week and suck. Those teams that think it’s so cruel might want to think about stepping their games up and getting in the top 35!
The problem with NASCAR (and the sports world in general) is this great sense of entitlement everyone has. Their team, driver, town, etc… just deserves respect because they exist and deserve to have everything handed to them. Hendrick, the Patriots, and Yankees didn’t get to their elite status in sports by sitting back and going “woe is me, these rules are so unfair” and waiting for a handout. What’s right may very well be right, but that’s not life. It’s certainly not life where I work, or in any sport that I know of. I’d like to know one place where everything is 100% fair. Not even IROC was fair, despite their attempts to make a level playing field. If you didn’t drive a stock car on those cookie cutter tracks every week, you weren’t going to win the thing.
While I certainly don’t blindly accept NASCAR’s BS, I know that crying about the top35 rule isn’t going to change a thing. So I accept it for what it is and enjoy the racing. My guy isn’t going to miss any races, top 35 or not, and on the freak chance that he did, life would go on and he’d try next week. Besides, he’s got a couple of Past Champ’s provisionals to fall back on
Robin Pemberton wrote:
Hi Robin! I’m appealing my suspension so I can still post for another week or so before your 100% biased panel backs up your original suspension!!!!
Oh and tell Brian to enjoy the 4th and just don’t tie on too many Appletinis before he gets behind the wheel
Jeff wrote:
This is very funny! Nice ruse!
Jeff:
Thanks again for the spirited debate, but we’re starting to get a bit redundant, so I’m out of here. Besides after all that — instead of placing focus on how ridicules Nascar has become, you seem to think that I’m in search of perfection in racing. LOL
So, later for now, and I’ll check back to catch some of the comical comments from the Jarheads that we have attracted. Again, LOL!
all you ppl like have no life complaining about things you cant control..just shut up and let racing be racing..
Forevemofo — LOL
With a name like that, you must have one super exciting life. That being said, I can’t help but wonder how you found the time to read, and respond to our nonsense?
I don’t think the sponsorship is skirting the rules. What will people say after next year when the 26 moves over to Yates since Roush has to have it down to 4 teams.